What does it take to go from studio to stage?
Public speaking success lessons from the queen of book podcasts, Anne Bogel
Hi storytellers —
I don’t know about you, but I’m feeling an urgency to get big things done before the end of the year. That’s why you’re reading this newsletter on Substack! We’ve been talking about moving to Substack for months. But daily deadlines have taken precedence over “important, not urgent” projects. This liminal season between Thanksgiving and Christmas feels like the right time to make some of our wished-for changes come true.
As you eye the end of the year, what are your hopes and dreams for your podcast, your writing, your other creative work?
If public speaking is on your list to start or ramp up next year, you’re going to love the latest Sound Judgment episode, “Secrets of Hosting Live and In-Studio with the Queen of Book Podcasts, Anne Bogel.” As you’ll see in our Try This in Your Studio column below, this hilarious episode from our archives is full of smart lessons not just for podcast creators, but for live moderators, emcees, and speakers of all kinds. Read on.
Try this in your studio
In each issue, I summarize takeaways from the Sound Judgment podcast that you can act on right away. For more, visit our blog.
Most podcasters I know either already speak on stage or want to. It’s a natural fit: We love stories, we adore a good audience (admit it), and we use our voices as our creative instruments.
But as obvious as the fit is, the skills are not the same. If you’re as comfortable on stage as you are in studio, you’re one of the rare few.
Take heart. Anne Bogel, host of the hit literary matchmaking podcast What Should I Read Next, offers dynamite, learned-on-the-job lessons for slaying your live audience.
Anne Bogel, host of What Should I Read Next?
“Good panel moderation is invisible if you do it well,” Anne says. “But if you do it poorly, there's a whole room of disappointed people who won't hesitate to let you know.”
When I spoke with Anne last year, she surprised me. As a longtime What Should I Read Next listener, I knew her as soft-spoken, almost soothing in her approach to guests. In the episode we dissected on Sound Judgment—a raucous discussion with four authors at a book festival—she was anything but. On stage, Anne’s huge personality shone, not simply because the situation called for it, but because of specific techniques she employs as a moderator.
Moderating is not an easy task. As she says, “Moderators will get together and talk about managing the demands, the egos, the bruised feelings— the agendas of the individuals on the panel. And it's very easy for one or two people to dominate the conversation.”
(Anne’s answers to my questions were so spot on that I feel compelled to share them with you in Q&A form.)
Steal her lessons. I am.
On the difference between podcasting and live hosting:
Q: I was struck by the difference between your manner as a host on the podcast and how you were on stage. How do you think about the differences?
A: Many times our guests have never been on a podcast before. They'll hop on and say, ‘I'm so nervous to talk to you.’ [So] we talk about a lot of Taylor Swift songs, a lot of ‘what do you enjoy for breakfast?’ We just have a lot of chit-chat. But I also say, ‘This is just two book lovers sitting down for coffee. We're leaning across the table and we get to talk about something we both love.’
But the visual for a panel discussion in a room of hundreds of readers is not two people at a table leaning over their lattes. It's more like a big, ‘Come on in, the water is warm! Big mama shepherding and embracing [and saying] there is room here for all of us and we're gonna have a ball!’
On setting a lively pace with the first question
In her first question, Anne did not fall back on the tradition of asking her author panelists to immediately discuss their books. Here’s what she asked:
“60 seconds each: Just tell me about a memorable book club experience, whether it's something that you experienced as a peer or something that you participated in as an author or heard a story about later.”
Q: Why did you start with that question?
A: Elaine, I thought they might have good stories. I also wanted something engaging that would get people talking right off the bat and would allow them all to introduce themselves to the audience quickly so everyone could have a voice in the first five minutes of the conversation. That doesn't happen at some panels.
On striking the right balance between under- and over-preparing panelists
Q: Did you give the panelists your questions beforehand? Or did they come in just knowing the general topic?
A: I think it's helpful if guests know the structure. I wanted everybody to be prepared with the [introductory] story and to have time to think about it, so nobody felt caught up short.
So I asked for a sixty-second story about something that happened in book club. I also asked for a couple of book recommendations that you thought would be great to talk about in a book club, or that you had enjoyed talking about in a book club yourself.
And then I said, generally we're going to lean into the discussability, the delight of chatting with other readers about books. And there's one other thing I told them — that they all write books that make readers go, ‘Oh, I can't wait to talk to my friends about this!’ So let's talk about writing those books. But that's as specific as it got.
On hosting as hospitality
Anne considers hosting live panels and podcasts as forms of hospitality. That uncommon philosophy explains why she’s adamant about stating the session’s purpose to the audience up front. It’s also the foundation for how she planned and prepared for the live panel.
Q: You are the first Sound Judgment guest who's actually used the word hospitality, but you're probably familiar with Priya Parker, author of The Art of Gathering?
A: Oh, I love Priya Parker. We've talked about The Art of Gathering on the show, and I'm sure I was thinking about Priya Parker when I sent those emails early in advance to the panelists [to say] ‘Let's talk about why we're here and what we want to do.’ And in the introduction to the panel, I said, ‘Hey readers, this is why we're here today. This is what is going to happen. We're glad you're here. Let's go.’ Priya Parker really helped me think about what it means to host a gathering like that.
Q: Right. Knowing why you're pulling that gathering together, why you're hosting the session in the first place?
A: Mm-hmm. And not just in your mind, but letting everyone who is there know. If you've been to Zoom meetings in the pandemic that were not good, a lot of times it's because you get on Zoom and nobody says, ‘Hi, we're glad you're here. This is what we're doing today.’ It can feel silly at first to name your purpose, but what is this podcast? What is it here for? What do we hope you take away? Those can be really important things to state, and it's easy to take them for granted and let them remain unspoken.
On emotional range
Q: Sometimes what I hear in a very good podcast episode, or in this case a live event, is…it's like listening to orchestra music, where there's a range in the dynamics, you're not getting the same emotion all the way through. As you said, ‘We laughed, we cried, we laughed until we cried.’ Some people orchestrate that intentionally, and then other people, it's just something that's happened over time. Are you aware of that dynamic?
A: Aware of it, yes. Hopeful of it, yes. But you can't force something to happen. You can only set the stage as best you can and pray that it unfolds in that manner. And I was saying for the live panel at Bookmarks NC, that readers were crying tears of compassion and empathy and also just dying of laughter about these stories of reading sex scenes over the phone to readers’ husbands.*
It's the whole human experience. That's what you get in the reading life.
On creating the conditions to elicit honest emotions
Q: Can you think of something you did when you were writing questions ahead of time, where you were saying, let's set the stage to get that whole human experience?
A: I was very conscious of setting the stage as a whole. This is what I hope to showcase in your work. This is what I hope the listener's experience will be like. And these are the topics I wish to hit. And I feel like when you're talking about visiting the highs and lows, it can feel overdone to say, ‘tell me a really sad story, or tell me a really funny story.’ You can't just tell somebody to be funny or lighthearted, but I'd like to think that we create a casing that allows for the range and then make people feel safe to explore that.
*You really have to hear the whole episode to fully experience the hilarity that ensued quickly.
Anne’s holiday gift recommendations for podcasters and other creators
The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker
Out on a Wire by Jessica Abel
I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai
The links above lead to Bookshop.org. I may receive an affiliate commission on book purchases.
How to measure your podcast, part 2
Thanks to Signal Hill Insights for sponsoring today’s episode and this “How to Measure Your Podcast” series.
We put a lot of content out in the world. Don’t you wish you knew more about how your listeners are responding? It’s always important — but especially so for those of us who make branded podcasts.
Paul Riismandel, chief insights officer at the audio research firm Signal Hill Insights, has a lot to say about how we should survey listeners. In the first segment, we discussed the optimal timing of a research plan and several questions to ask listeners. He also defined the term “brand objective.”
Now let’s move on to a couple more definitions—and a stat that surprised me.
Brand lift: the change in a listener's perception or attitude about a brand. In this case, we’re looking for brand lift that results from a branded podcast.
In your listener survey, ask questions like:
“Are you thinking about the brand?”
“Are you considering the brand? For example, if you’re going to buy a new vehicle, are you considering a Chevy, a Ford, or a Tesla?”
“Are you likely to purchase the brand?”
Halo effect: The positive impact for a brand that results from sponsoring good content. Ask:
First of all, do you know the sponsor? (Did the listener associate the sponsor with the podcast?)
If yes, does the association make you more or less favorable towards the brand?
And here’s that stat: 61 percent of listeners say their opinion of a brand is more favorable as a result of listening to that branded content.
To learn more, visit www.measureyourpodcast.com to sign up for a four-part email series. To hear Part 1, listen to Sound Judgment S3 Episode 5: How to Track a Liar with Believable: The Coco Berthmann Story Showrunner Karen Given.
In every issue, we give Sound Judgment Kudos to audio folks we feel are making fantastic sound judgments creative choices — choices that elevate the quality of podcasts and lift up the storytelling community.
Our first SJ Kudo goes to Tribeca Audio Festival and its head of audio, Davy Gardner. I love that Tribeca is curating an Official Selection of podcasts and audio stories with an emphasis on discovering, highlighting, and celebrating independent work. More types of audio pieces than you might think are eligible. Click here for more information about applying. The Tribeca Film Festival is scheduled for June 5-16, 2024. Follow @TribecaAudio on Twitter/X for updates on the competition and the festival.
Our second SJ Kudo once again goes to the good folks at the Association for Independents in Radio (AIR), this time for creating New Voices AMPLIFY, an eight-week program designed to help you grow your show. 16 fellows will receive $1,000 stipends and access to training and mentorship on subjects like monetization and audience engagement. The deadline is December 8! More info here.
Our third SJ Kudo goes to Shaun Michael Colón for his tireless work on the in-progress documentary film, The Age of Audio. I just watched the trailer — narrated by Weight for It’s Ronald Young Jr., a Sound Judgment guest — and I feel like this film is just what our industry needs right now. It’s about the history (and the future) of audio as an art, a craft, and a business. You can help this great film get made by donating to its IndieGogo campaign, and by sharing the word.
Our own best Sound Judgment:
I’m about to start coaching a new public radio host — and we’re using Sound Judgment as the backbone of our training program! The playlist Podcast Allies’ Tina Bassir curated for interview show hosts and producers is an essential piece. If you use it in your curriculum, drop us a line or comment on Substack.
My personal best Sound Judgment:
A deep appreciation for our local library. What’s not to like about a library that puts up “book trees” for the holidays?
Epilogue
“What are the human things about you, and what are the human things about me? Then when you put those things in a room together, human things happen. And that's interesting! You know what I mean?”
― Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Host, Last Day
Thanks for reading. It’s a joy to be with you.
Elaine Appleton Grant